GwyHill: o s da sv hi ye i Good evening GFS Karen: Osiyo Gwy HRHONDA: Looking for a Kes-he-wa-quay Potawatomi m. Pierre F. Navarre. GwyHill: Honda you say your from Navarre Fl.? GFS Karen: PRICE CHEROKEE, CARR CHEROKEE MOORE CREE PATTERSON CHEROKEE Jeanway: Haze/Dover-Chickasaw KLamb12480: Poquette, Chippewa GFS Angela: WALTON, Choctaw Freedmen, TALKINGTON Cherokee. HRHONDA: Potawatomi: Kes-he-wa-quay m. Pierre F. Navarre; Mah-tee-nose (Madeline) m. Joseph LeRoy HRHONDA: and daughter of Ah-ke-na-po-way (Chief Standing Earth). Gfh BB: BENGE, SEABOLT, TIMBERLAKE, LOWREY, CORKSILK Gfh BB: THOMPSON, SNAIL/SNELL all Cherokee GwyHill: Gwy Cherokee Fl. VikiA: ROARK, KEMP, COLBERT, LOVE, FRAZIER - Chickasaw Jeanway: My chickasaw ancestor is from the Sardis dam area of Mississippi about1899 HRHONDA: Potowatomis from WI, MO, OK. SPR Ed: akan La Taquichi, Mdwakanton Sioux (according to family group sheet) early 1800's MN. Ajabboat: Anyone familiar with the WW & how Indians were registered? GFS Karen: Ajabboat are you talking about World War ? Or Help me here . GFS Karen: Ajabboat what is the WW you are talking about ? Ajabboat: Karen, Yes, my great uncle was listed as "Colored", but I was told if he was Asian or Indian Ajabboat: He would be listed as that, yes WW1 GFS Trio: Ajab...... that is unfortunately..... true! GFS Karen: Ok got ya In world War one if they were Native American they were registered as Ajabboat: Trio, you mean about him being listed as 'colored'? JAS17: My g-grandfather was in WWI, listed as Am. Indian on draft record. GFS Karen: People of color . GFS Trio: Yes..... he would have been listed as colored............... GFS Angela: If one came from a recognized reservation, Native American, or rather, American Indian... GFS Angela: was used.... GFS Karen: But if you want to get his military record you can send to the National Archives KLamb12480: Where is the best place to look for info. the locals in Wisconsin have not been helpful GFS Karen: and get it . GFS Angela: The term "colored" was used frequently on census records... GFS Angela: to describe all persons of color. GFS Trio: Ajab..... a crying shame to discriminate that way! GFS Karen: KLamb what are you looking for JAS17: Mine was on choctaw rolls, but not on a reservation GFS Karen: Angela that is so true . Ajabboat: A WW1 researcher said if he was 'black', it would have said so. GFS Karen: Are we ready John Gfh BB: Ajabboat you picked a perfect day to start your journey Gfh BB: here, the talk Karen is doing will relate to that KLamb12480: Info on the Chippewas in Northeastern Wisconsin, esp. Poquette. GFS Karen: Gosh I hope this goes off ok BPROKSHA: I was told that my family were Indian, later Melungion...no one wants to be specific...???? F RIGLER: Hello Angela.... Ajabboat: Trio, I know, I still have family in WV who won't recognize me because I'm part Indian!!! Steelpony1: Is there an internet address where the "rolls" can be acessed? GFS Trio: Ajab.... that is also ... "usually" true... remains to be proven tho! GFS Karen: Tonight I will be giving a short talk on the MELGUNGEONS GFS Karen: Thank you John , I have gone through many files books and records on the GFS Karen: Melungeons. GFS Karen: In the next 20 minutes I hope that I can shed alittle light on who the GFS Karen: Melungeoins were, and where they came from . So here we go . Most families GFS Karen: in the Southern part of North America in someway have family roots to the GFS Karen: Melungeons. So lets start from the Beginning . Where did the Melungeons GFS Karen: come from ? That is a good question . Some call the Melungeons the " Lost GFS Karen: People " or the "Mysterious " people of Appalachia. There are alot of GFS Karen: stories of where the Melungeons came from . I will try to explain a few. GFS Karen: They say that they are decended from the "Lost Colony of Roanoke" who GFS Karen: married into the local Native American tribes. Others say that they were ISIS443682: Good Evening Everyone GFS Karen: descendants of Welsh explorer Modoc who came to North America around 1100 GFS Karen: AD, GFS Karen: with ten ships of colonists . Still others say that Melungeons are the lost GFS Karen: tribe of Isreal,lost Spanish explores and just simply a "tri -racial isolate, GFS Karen: made up of Native American/ African American/Caucasian mixture. " But then GFS Karen: there are those that say they were Portuguese . The Melungeons according to GFS Karen: Brent Kennedy writer of " The Melungeons , the Resurrection of a Proud GFS Karen: People." suggested that the Melungeons were stating fact when they said they GFS Karen: were " Portyghee" . Saying that Portuguese/Morrish people who were being GFS Karen: increasingly attacked during the Spanish Inquisition were a large part of the GFS Karen: settlers Spain brought to this country in the 1500's . The largest bans of GFS Karen: Native Americans to intermarry with the settlers were the Cherokee, Powhatans GFS Karen: and the Pamunkeys. These people migrated westward in front of the imagrants GFS Karen: and on the way married with other groups, possibly escaped slaves, English, GFS Karen: English/Native Americans and Scotch /Irish. The language that they spoke was GFS Karen: broken or Elizabethan English . Their features were said to be from Dark skin GFS Karen: to Light skin ,eyes could be Brown or Steel Blue in color while the hair GFS Karen: could be Brown ,Black or Blonde. This comes from intermarrying . When the GFS Karen: white people cought up with them in Tennessee Kentucky and other Southern GFS Karen: States they did not like them around and the sad part is that for these GFS Karen: people they were deemed "Free Persons Of Color " and laws were made and GFS Karen: set GFS Karen: up to deprive the Melungeons of their basic rights. GFS Karen: Such as the right to Vote,the right to own land , and the right for their GFS Karen: childern to have an education . Being Melungeon was not the best way to get GFS Karen: ahead in those times. Many of them hid their ancestry with other "covers" GFS Karen: that could account for their dark features, saying that they were " Black GFS Karen: Dutch , Black Irish" or having " Native American ancestory" GFS Karen: Today trying to find your Melungeon ties is not easy . Here is a few ways GFS Karen: you can get some help or tell if there is Melungeon ancestry in your roots. GFS Karen: Check census records for changes ,ie from FPC to white , to Mulatto, to GFS Karen: Indian and back again . This is not for the direct lines but your Aunts , GFS Karen: Uncles and Cousins . Families would change to protect the children and also GFS Karen: so that they could own land and vote.One good sorce of obtaining information GFS Karen: is the books " Cherokee By Blood " written by Jerry Jordan, this can be GFS Karen: helpfull in looking at Cherokee lines, these books are a collection of GFS Karen: accepted and Rejected applications. And look for families that seem to have GFS Karen: no history or one that does not fit . Not all of this alone means that a GFS Karen: family is or was Melungeon but taken several together may be a good overall GFS Karen: view that they are . GFS Karen: But yet in many cases there is no proof. there is another way to check to GFS Karen: see if there is a chance that there is Melungeon in your family lines not GFS Karen: only the features of skin and eyes and hair , but also the Teeth . GFS Karen: Melungeons have " Shovel Teeth " curving of the inner surface of the front GFS Karen: teeth makes the shape of a shovel. This trait is also common in the Native GFS Karen: American Roots. There is also genetic diseases that are particular to the GFS Karen: North Africans and Mediterranean lines, that show up in the people from GFS Karen: Appalachia. In summing this up is to say that to understand this is to have GFS Karen: to redfine the assumptions about the ethnic hertiage of the Appalichians. We GFS Karen: know that there are gentic diseases and conditions associated with the folks GFS Karen: of Melungeon descent that are not in " Scotch-Irish Appalachians". All we need GFS Karen: to know is that the explanation of who we are , as a region is not as simple GFS Karen: as isolated Scotch -Irish with a dab of Cherokee. It will take alot of GFS Karen: looking and studing your family lines. GFS Karen: I am going to list a few of the SURNAMES that have been associated with the GFS Karen: Melungeons . They are as follows . GFS Karen: ADKINS,BARKER,BARNS,BELL,BERRY,BIGGS.BOLEN.BOWMAN,BURTON, GFS Karen: BYRD,CAMPBELL,CARRICO,CARTER,CASTEEL,CHAVIS,CLARK,COFFEY,C GFS Karen: OLE,COLEMAN,CURRY,DAVIS,DORTON,DYE,ELY,EVANS,FIELDS,FREEMA GFS Karen: N,FRENCH,GANN,GIBSON,GOINS,GOINGS,GOWAN,GRAHAM,HALL,HAMM GFS Karen: OND,HILL,HILLMAN,HOP GFS Karen: KINS,JACKSON,KEITH,KENNEDY,LAWSON,LUCAS,MAGGARD,MALONEY, GFS Karen: MARTIN,MINER, GFS Karen: MOORE,NASH,NOEL,ORR,OSBORNE,PERRY,PHIPPS,POLLY,POWERS,RA GFS Karen: MSEY, GFS Karen: REAVES, GFS Karen: REEVES,ROBERTSON,SHEPHARD/SHEPHERD,SIZEMORE,STANLEY,TOLL GFS Karen: IVER, GFS Karen: TURNER,VANCOVER,WHITE,WILLIAMS,WRIGHT , and many more . GFS Karen: Here are a few references that can help you . GFS Karen: The Melungeons , The Ressurrection of a Proud People , by N.Brent Kennedy GFS Karen: Lost Tribes of Tennesse Mountains by James Aswell GFS Karen: The Melungeons by Bonnie Ball GFS Karen: The Melungeons of Newman Ridge by Phyllis Cox Barr GFS Karen: Almost White by Berry Brewton GFS Karen: The Melungeons Yesterday and Today by Jean Patterson Bible GFS Karen: I have a much larger list if you would like it . GFS Karen: I want to thank Bill Fields for the wonderfull artical he has written if it GFS Karen: were not for it I would have no idea of where to start . Even though there GFS Karen: is much more to be written . GFS Karen: Thank you for coming tonight and please remember to follow the queue. GFS GFS Karen: Angela and I will try to answer your questions for you . Thank you once GFS Karen: again . JJordan397: Who carries the books you mentioned? GFS Karen: Jerry I had to order them from my book store GFS Karen: I can send you the name and you can get them GFS Karen: Alot of the articles are in refernce books JJordan397: That would be great. Couple of my family names listed. GFS Trio: I hope you can understand....... The Melungeons are VERY controversial! GFS Karen: Ray this is so true . I had the most difficult time on this GFS Trio: I believe that they didnt exist..... I hope you all can prove they did..... or didnt! Vals roots: Would you still like to have that GFS Karen: Ray they did Vals roots: article I saw in a genealogy magazine? SeaStar900: Karen, were you able to get more info on the medical/genetics part? Dixchas: Karen, did you see the articles on tri-racial isolate in NC Gen abt year ago GFS Karen: Kathy I am working on that. That part got to me . I do know that GFS Karen: Sickle Cell is one also Taysacks is another SeaStar900: Yeah, sounds like a good way to "prove" descent GFS Karen: Dixchas no . Can you tell me about it ? Jeanway: I thought taysacks is a mediterrean disease. GFS Karen: Yes it is . It is a Jewish or Hewbrew disease Dixchas: I'll dig it out & mail, they are lengthy. On this subject & covered line, Colbert, Turberville, other GFS Karen: As far as the melungeons go I am looking into it more . BPROKSHA: I have Gibson's who suddenly changed their name to Collins, I would like a name list....info Vals roots: Karen, do you still want me to send you the article on Melungeons that I saw in a genealogy Vals roots: magazine ....I think it was Ancestry's or something? SueSkay: Could this grouping possibly be Safardic Jews? Mediterranean Jews! GFS Karen: Sue it is possible . I have so much that this could have been three parts GFS Karen: I can send you the papers I got from Bill Fields and Seastar BPROKSHA: I keep hearing about the contr'vy...Is it only because of the mixed races??? SueSkay: My Moore's are out of Tennessee....Indian background? GFS Karen: Sue alot of Moore's could be Cree or Choctaw or Chicksaw GFS Karen: There also could be Souix that were Moore's Dixchas: Karen, as I recall, DNA tests were done "proving" african, indian & white GFS Karen: Dixchas you are right . There is a study that is going on now GFS Karen: about the native Americans and African Americans . Angela do you know about it JJordan397: Karen, great talk. Thanks so much. I know it must have been difficult to find info GFS Angela: Have her references to it, but know one can speak with knowledge of such. GFS Karen: I do know that they are doing genetic studies on the Native Americans GFS Angela: Sickle Cell is a major one, though.... GFS Karen: Jerry I learned so much doing this talk . That I want to know more NAHUHH: GFS Karen have you heard about the genetic link b/t Native Americans and Asians? Aan yeetee: It seems that everyone is always doing some type of study on NA. GFS Karen: NAHUHH no But I have reached a point doing this that I do want to know more SPR Ed: ANTAYA (Pelletier), GINGRAS Abenaki Nation, Wade Hampton COX Cherokee in WV also GODDARDS ? NAHUHH: It connects the two through both of thier inability to metabolise alcohol JJordan397: Karen, it's easy to get hooked on a specific subject, I know! Gfh BB: Aan yeetee, what field are you studing? GFS Karen: Jerry I know . Now I think I have an idea how you did the Cherokee By Blood Aan yeetee: I have read about the ALCOHOL study. Vals roots: Karen> There is yet another article I just read in Heritage Quest about N.A. research, si NAHUHH: Aan do you have it by any chance? Aan yeetee: I have a BA in Anthropology. Vals roots: si=so I can send a copy of that too! GFS Karen: BP let me send you the list that I used . It helped alot JJordan397: Karen, I would like the longer lists of books, please. Gfh BB: Aan yeetee yes very sad fact isn't it/ Are you NA? GFS Karen: Also I can send you the files that everyone sent me Aan yeetee: I do not know, it was a study from 5 or so years ago. SueSkay: Karen: Can we get the list of names? BPROKSHA: That would be very much appreciated Karen. Aan yeetee: Yes I am part TLINGIT/ NAHUHH: I would love to have a copy of it mine met an unfortunate end! Aan yeetee: EYAK GFS Karen: Aan mabey you could help me with the Genetic of the Melgungeons . I got GFS Karen: hooked SeaStar900: I would also like a copy of the study Aan. Please Dixchas: Thanks so much for the lecture, Karen, very informative. Goodnight ISIS443682: Osiyo Karen, Would you mind sending me your list of books.....thanks GFS John: Please type the surnames / Tribe you are researching to the screen now IN GFS John: CAPS, and be as specific as you can as to time and place. NAHUHH: GFSKaren have you had a chance to complete your uploading of your files yet? SeaStar900: SISK & ALSUP, Cherokee, also ROARK, MASSEY, RUTLEDGE BPROKSHA: GIBSON***RAMEY**REMY**KILGORE**MCARTY Jeanway: Haze/Dover/Chickasaw GFS Angela: WALTON, Choctaw Freedmen, TALKINGTON, Cherokee.... GFS Karen: NAh I have been working on them . GFS Karen: I have yours and started on them Friday Gfh BB: BPROKSHA are your McCarty's Cherokee? SueSkay: MOORE/?, BOOTHE/?, DIXON/?, RUTLEDGE, MC CARTY RGallen123: SIMPSON, BAKER,ELLIS, TALBERT, KINNEY, KINDLE,GILBERT,BALL, LEACH,KARBER JAS17: HAZEL, BUCKHOLTS, Choctaw (AL, OK) VAUGHN, BRASHEARS, Choctaw - AL ISIS443682: NEAL,Blackfoot, WINCHESTER,Cherokee SPR Ed: ANTAYA (Pelletier),GRINGRAS Abenaki Nation, Wade Hampton COX state WV Cherokee MCDeidre: Only line of Native Amerc is my Step grandmother. I don't know know what tribe though JJordan397: SueSkay, where were your Dixon's from? MBrown2205: BEARDEN, BENNETT, PAISLEY, MILAM, BLUM, WINN BPROKSHA: Not that I know of NAHUHH: please don't forget the ones you said you would send, I have been working on the last one! JJordan397: MBrown, Are your Bearden's from GA? SueSkay: JJordan: NC, into GA then into Amite Co., MS by 1807 MBrown2205: Yes JJordan397: SueSkay, OK, ours are from VA to TX direct Gfh BB: SUeSkay are your McCarty Cherokee? MBrown2205: JJordan:Beardens settled in N. GA in early 1800's MCDeidre: BPROKSHA- My best friend in school was RAMEY, she said she heard tales of the family being SueSkay: Gfh BB: Don't know about the McCarty's....they married into our Moore's....they were Indian JJordan397: MBrown, I want to talk to you later. We have GA Bearden's MCDeidre: related to the French family REMY that makes champagne. BPROKSHA: it was once spelled Remy, but from what exact line, I don't know ISIS443682: Karen & John, do you have any info on NEALS in WVA...... GFS Karen: Isis I can check and let you know . Which tribe MCDeidre: her names Tamara and dad's name's Donald had a brother James. ISIS443682: Blackfoot...... GFS Karen: Ok ISIS will see what I can find . Do you want any Neal or ? BPROKSHA: If you want, I'll get back to you about more, the screen is too fast right now... ISIS443682: Any NEALS, JJordan397: Good night everyone, I've got to run. See you next week GFS Karen: BP thank you for being her tonight It was good to see you ISIS443682: Osiyo BB, I believe so....I know my great grands left the midwest and move to WVA.. SPR Ed: BB did I miss something on Blackfoots out of Montana last Sunday ? Gfh BB: Isis there are three Blackfoot/ Montana/Canadian and Sioux/ and a Cherokee Band BPROKSHA: RAMEY**REMY**MCCARTY**KILGORE**BEVINS***GIBSON,Tenn. Ky, Ohio SueSkay: Thanks Karen for the talk....makes me really stop and wonder GFS Angela: What is the Cherokee connection.....I have never seen it referenced. Steelpony1: Horn Rome Ga. GFA Mead: BPROKSHA...have you corresponded with Martha REMY on Compuserve? GFA Mead: She is the book editor.... Gfh BB: Angela we are looking into it. Steel pony someone else is Gfh BB: working on HORN will email you if I can find it Steelpony1: Alice L. Horn born 1878 in Rome GA to Felix and Dorcus Horn Any info? GFS Angela: BB, is there a reference to that?? I have several books on the Cherokee nation.... Steelpony1: 1874 maybe ..\ GFS Angela: and have never seen such.....their cultures are very different.... Gfh BB: Yes Isis it makes it very confusing/ so need to isolate area